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AsaSK

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:41 pm    Post subject: PC overheats and switches off Reply with quote

Hi all, something a little different from me today..

My PC began getting hot pretty quickly a couple of months ago and subsequently triggers the safety 'switch-off' every time I try to start it up. I've checked the fans, cleaned the inside of the PC, thermite paste seems to be fine, and I moved an intake fan to the back and made it an exhaust (bizarrely the company who built the PC didn't give it an exhaust!) Despite all this it still becomes hot quickly and switches off - I'm certain it's a heat problem (as opposed to, say, a PSU issue) because when I take the side of the case off and manually train a desktop fan on the PC it works without error.

Does anyone have any possible idea as to why this is happening? I only have one intake and one exhaust, but that has served me for nearly two years now and the PC isn't overclocked or anything like that.

Many thanks!

Asa
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:45 pm    Post subject: PC overheats and switches off Reply with quote

Could you post your full specs including PSU make and model please?
You're right in thinking that complete shutdowns are usually due to temps or a PSU issue. How far do you get into the boot process before it shuts down? If you have an Intel CPU, could you point the fan at the PC and take a look at MSI Afterburner and check out your idle temps?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:02 pm    Post subject: Re: PC overheats and switches off Reply with quote

Johncena1 wrote:
Could you post your full specs including PSU make and model please?
You're right in thinking that complete shutdowns are usually due to temps or a PSU issue. How far do you get into the boot process before it shuts down? If you have an Intel CPU, could you point the fan at the PC and take a look at MSI Afterburner and check out your idle temps?


Thanks for the reply Johncena1,

My specs are as follows, let me know if you need any more information:

Machine name: ASA-PC
Operating System: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_ldr.160408-2045)
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: MSI
System Model: MS-7641
BIOS: Default System BIOS
Processor: AMD FX(tm)-6300 Six-Core Processor (6 CPUs), ~3.5GHz
Memory: 16384MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 16384MB RAM
Page File: 4937MB used, 66999MB available
Windows Dir: C:\Windows
DirectX Version: DirectX 11
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
User DPI Setting: Using System DPI
System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
DxDiag Version: 6.01.7601.17514 64bit Unicode

PSU manufacturer: Vibox
PSU model: FSP500-60HCN

As for the duration before switch-off, that varies. From 'cold' (having had the computer off for a couple of hours) it can last about a quarter of an hour, well past log-on. The temperature on the front display is usually around XXoC when it shuts off. Obviously the insides remain at a similar temperature for a while, so if I then attempt to start it back up immediately it will only last a few seconds before shutting off again.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:27 pm    Post subject: Re: PC overheats and switches off Reply with quote

AsaSK wrote:
Johncena1 wrote:
Could you post your full specs including PSU make and model please?
You're right in thinking that complete shutdowns are usually due to temps or a PSU issue. How far do you get into the boot process before it shuts down? If you have an Intel CPU, could you point the fan at the PC and take a look at MSI Afterburner and check out your idle temps?


Thanks for the reply Johncena1,

My specs are as follows, let me know if you need any more information:

Machine name: ASA-PC
Operating System: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_ldr.160408-2045)
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: MSI
System Model: MS-7641
BIOS: Default System BIOS
Processor: AMD FX(tm)-6300 Six-Core Processor (6 CPUs), ~3.5GHz
Memory: 16384MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 16384MB RAM
Page File: 4937MB used, 66999MB available
Windows Dir: C:\Windows
DirectX Version: DirectX 11
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
User DPI Setting: Using System DPI
System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
DxDiag Version: 6.01.7601.17514 64bit Unicode

PSU manufacturer: Vibox
PSU model: FSP500-60HCN

Startup time before switch-off: XX


Thank you for providing your specs. Your PSU isn't something I would personally trust, unknown brands usually use low quality components which can't actually handle the load they say they can. First though, lets try and rule out a temperature issue, would you be able to check your thermal margin on AMD Overdrive? Also, do you have a dedicated GPU in your system? Unless I'm missing it, there isn't one in the list.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:07 pm    Post subject: Re: PC overheats and switches off Reply with quote

Johncena1 wrote:
AsaSK wrote:
Johncena1 wrote:
Could you post your full specs including PSU make and model please?
You're right in thinking that complete shutdowns are usually due to temps or a PSU issue. How far do you get into the boot process before it shuts down? If you have an Intel CPU, could you point the fan at the PC and take a look at MSI Afterburner and check out your idle temps?


Thanks for the reply Johncena1,

My specs are as follows, let me know if you need any more information:

Machine name: ASA-PC
Operating System: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_ldr.160408-2045)
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: MSI
System Model: MS-7641
BIOS: Default System BIOS
Processor: AMD FX(tm)-6300 Six-Core Processor (6 CPUs), ~3.5GHz
Memory: 16384MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 16384MB RAM
Page File: 4937MB used, 66999MB available
Windows Dir: C:\Windows
DirectX Version: DirectX 11
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
User DPI Setting: Using System DPI
System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
DxDiag Version: 6.01.7601.17514 64bit Unicode

PSU manufacturer: Vibox
PSU model: FSP500-60HCN

Startup time before switch-off: XX


Thank you for providing your specs. Your PSU isn't something I would personally trust, unknown brands usually use low quality components which can't actually handle the load they say they can. First though, lets try and rule out a temperature issue, would you be able to check your thermal margin on AMD Overdrive? Also, do you have a dedicated GPU in your system? Unless I'm missing it, there isn't one in the list.


Thanks for your reply, yes I do have a GPU, not sure why I overlooked it when pasting from dxdiag - it's an AMD R9 200 series. As for the thermal margin, Overdrive reports it as jumping between approximately 36, 39 and 46 degrees. Also, every so often the frequency jumps to 3800 - is that normal?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:54 pm    Post subject: Re: PC overheats and switches off Reply with quote

AsaSK wrote:
Johncena1 wrote:
AsaSK wrote:
Johncena1 wrote:
Could you post your full specs including PSU make and model please?
You're right in thinking that complete shutdowns are usually due to temps or a PSU issue. How far do you get into the boot process before it shuts down? If you have an Intel CPU, could you point the fan at the PC and take a look at MSI Afterburner and check out your idle temps?


Thanks for the reply Johncena1,

My specs are as follows, let me know if you need any more information:

Machine name: ASA-PC
Operating System: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_ldr.160408-2045)
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: MSI
System Model: MS-7641
BIOS: Default System BIOS
Processor: AMD FX(tm)-6300 Six-Core Processor (6 CPUs), ~3.5GHz
Memory: 16384MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 16384MB RAM
Page File: 4937MB used, 66999MB available
Windows Dir: C:\Windows
DirectX Version: DirectX 11
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
User DPI Setting: Using System DPI
System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
DxDiag Version: 6.01.7601.17514 64bit Unicode

PSU manufacturer: Vibox
PSU model: FSP500-60HCN

Startup time before switch-off: XX


Thank you for providing your specs. Your PSU isn't something I would personally trust, unknown brands usually use low quality components which can't actually handle the load they say they can. First though, lets try and rule out a temperature issue, would you be able to check your thermal margin on AMD Overdrive? Also, do you have a dedicated GPU in your system? Unless I'm missing it, there isn't one in the list.


Thanks for your reply, yes I do have a GPU, not sure why I overlooked it when pasting from dxdiag - it's an AMD R9 200 series. As for the thermal margin, Overdrive reports it as jumping between approximately 36, 39 and 46 degrees. Also, every so often the frequency jumps to 3800 - is that normal?

That's okay, I usually miss important things out when copying and pasting. Your thermal margin seems okay, have you tested your PC under load since this issue arose? If possible, try to check the thermal margins while playing an intensive game, although the PC may shut down when you do this.

You have an AMD CPU and GPU, they use quite a lot of power, so that could be why you are seeing issues on your lower end power supply, that's if the temperatures aren't spiking under load.

The frequency can fluctuate when idle, as background tasks can be using the CPU without really showing a usage percentage, is your CPU usage low at idle? Could you also check the CPU's frequency while under a heavy load, just to check it's not throttling?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:08 am    Post subject: PC overheats and switches off Reply with quote

Okay so here's where it gets interesting.

I ran a stress test on the CPU and GPU and the system reported these temperatures:

Temperature 0: 79C (174F) [0x4F] (TMPIN0)
Temperature 1: 89C (192F) [0x59] (TMPIN1)
Temperature 2: 35C (95F) [0x23] (TMPIN2)

Fan 0: 2377 RPM [0x277] (FANIN0)
Fan PWM 0: 100 pc [0xFF] (CPU)
Fan PWM 1: 100 pc [0xFF] (System Fan 1)
Fan PWM 2: 55 pc [0x8C] (System Fan 2)

Then I looked at the thermal margin..



I did it in its casing without the desktop fan's assistance so I had to end it quickly once I got the results, but I did hold out for a while and this was as extreme as it got.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:48 am    Post subject: PC overheats and switches off Reply with quote

Thanks for the screenshot and info, it was very helpful. You have a negative thermal margin, which means your CPU is running over the safe temperature and overheating.

May I ask which cooler you're using? It may be worth reapplying the thermal paste and making sure the cooler is making good contact with the CPU's heat spreader.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 5:51 am    Post subject: PC overheats and switches off Reply with quote

Asa can I ask is this the new PC you got which was
pre-built. Is it still under guarantee and have you
thought of sending it back for an overhaul and repair.

I would be reluctant to do any own work on it
if it is a purchased PC rather than a self build.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:20 am    Post subject: Re: PC overheats and switches off Reply with quote

Johncena1 wrote:
Thanks for the screenshot and info, it was very helpful. You have a negative thermal margin, which means your CPU is running over the safe temperature and overheating.

May I ask which cooler you're using? It may be worth reapplying the thermal paste and making sure the cooler is making good contact with the CPU's heat spreader.


Mm I did check the thermite paste between the heatsink and CPU before and all seemed okay, I'll have to take the thing apart completely to do that and there are some funky-looking screw patterns I'll need to buy new drivers for, providing, of course, that I am not covered by any kind of repair warranty - which brings me to what Muggy said..

N.B. These are the screws(?), I think they're screws anyway.. they're sort of Allen heads with a smooth centre instead of a hexagonal one.



Muggy wrote:
Asa can I ask is this the new PC you got which was
pre-built. Is it still under guarantee and have you
thought of sending it back for an overhaul and repair.

I would be reluctant to do any own work on it
if it is a purchased PC rather than a self build.


It' is good idea, I've emailed the company to ask if I am still under warranty (we are still inside two years as you referenced in your link to my post), though I don't really want to send it away. I'm scared to death of losing data and it takes so long to reinstall everything from a reformat, even if you don't lose any data in the wipe.
However if it is under warranty I will send it anyway, they're probably quite careful with people's data and I do have my important stuff backed up.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:44 pm    Post subject: Re: PC overheats and switches off Reply with quote

AsaSK wrote:
Johncena1 wrote:
Thanks for the screenshot and info, it was very helpful. You have a negative thermal margin, which means your CPU is running over the safe temperature and overheating.

May I ask which cooler you're using? It may be worth reapplying the thermal paste and making sure the cooler is making good contact with the CPU's heat spreader.


Mm I did check the thermite paste between the heatsink and CPU before and all seemed okay, I'll have to take the thing apart completely to do that and there are some funky-looking screw patterns I'll need to buy new drivers for, providing, of course, that I am not covered by any kind of repair warranty - which brings me to what Muggy said..

N.B. These are the screws(?), I think they're screws anyway.. they're sort of Allen heads with a smooth centre instead of a hexagonal one.



Muggy wrote:
Asa can I ask is this the new PC you got which was
pre-built. Is it still under guarantee and have you
thought of sending it back for an overhaul and repair.

I would be reluctant to do any own work on it
if it is a purchased PC rather than a self build.


It' is good idea, I've emailed the company to ask if I am still under warranty (we are still inside two years as you referenced in your link to my post), though I don't really want to send it away. I'm scared to death of losing data and it takes so long to reinstall everything from a reformat, even if you don't lose any data in the wipe.
However if it is under warranty I will send it anyway, they're probably quite careful with people's data and I do have my important stuff backed up.


The pictures you provided show what is holding the CPU cooler on? Could you show a picture of the whole CPU cooler please?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:01 am    Post subject: PC overheats and switches off Reply with quote

About the thermal paste,
Did you remove the CPU cooler without replacing the paste and put it back?

Removing and replacing the CPU cooler without renewing the paste is a death sentence for CPU's. The reason is because when you remove the cooler, the paste gets separated. As soon as you put it back, air bubbles will occur between the two sides of paste as they are pushed back together again. These air bubbles can cause serious heating problems as it counteracts the heat conducting.

In any event of removing the CPU cooler, you always have to clean the top of the CPU and bottom of the cooler with pure alcohol. Once it's cleaned you re-apply a new thermal paste by laying down a very small droplet (about 8mm long) on the CPU before placing the cooler again. Be really careful not to apply too much otherwise it still counteracts the heat conduction.

It could be that your initial heat problem is solved, but that this has caused it to continue.



Btw, in here in Holland, most PC manufacturers void their warranty as soon as the casing has been opened. Did you had to remove any seals?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:13 pm    Post subject: Re: PC overheats and switches off Reply with quote

Mr Robville wrote:
About the thermal paste,
Did you remove the CPU cooler without replacing the paste and put it back?

Removing and replacing the CPU cooler without renewing the paste is a death sentence for CPU's. The reason is because when you remove the cooler, the paste gets separated. As soon as you put it back, air bubbles will occur between the two sides of paste as they are pushed back together again. These air bubbles can cause serious heating problems as it counteracts the heat conducting.

In any event of removing the CPU cooler, you always have to clean the top of the CPU and bottom of the cooler with pure alcohol. Once it's cleaned you re-apply a new thermal paste by laying down a very small droplet (about 8mm long) on the CPU before placing the cooler again. Be really careful not to apply too much otherwise it still counteracts the heat conduction.

It could be that your initial heat problem is solved, but that this has caused it to continue.



Btw, in here in Holland, most PC manufacturers void their warranty as soon as the casing has been opened. Did you had to remove any seals?


Nah I didn't remove the CPU cooler, I just felt it to see if it was wobbling or anything like that. I contacted the manufacturer and they said my warranty had expired anyway, so I was free to change the components.

In the end I discovered that the PC having two intakes and no exhaust was likely the problem, so I bought a couple of high-performance Corsair fans and I haven't had the problem since Smile

Thanks Rob and Johncena1! Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:52 pm    Post subject: Re: PC overheats and switches off Reply with quote

AsaSK wrote:
Mr Robville wrote:
About the thermal paste,
Did you remove the CPU cooler without replacing the paste and put it back?

Removing and replacing the CPU cooler without renewing the paste is a death sentence for CPU's. The reason is because when you remove the cooler, the paste gets separated. As soon as you put it back, air bubbles will occur between the two sides of paste as they are pushed back together again. These air bubbles can cause serious heating problems as it counteracts the heat conducting.

In any event of removing the CPU cooler, you always have to clean the top of the CPU and bottom of the cooler with pure alcohol. Once it's cleaned you re-apply a new thermal paste by laying down a very small droplet (about 8mm long) on the CPU before placing the cooler again. Be really careful not to apply too much otherwise it still counteracts the heat conduction.

It could be that your initial heat problem is solved, but that this has caused it to continue.



Btw, in here in Holland, most PC manufacturers void their warranty as soon as the casing has been opened. Did you had to remove any seals?


Nah I didn't remove the CPU cooler, I just felt it to see if it was wobbling or anything like that. I contacted the manufacturer and they said my warranty had expired anyway, so I was free to change the components.

In the end I discovered that the PC having two intakes and no exhaust was likely the problem, so I bought a couple of high-performance Corsair fans and I haven't had the problem since Smile

Thanks Rob and Johncena1! Smile

Two intakes and no exhaust creates positive pressure, which while having no exhaust isn't ideal, shouldn't cause any issues. Adding the extra fan may have helped but may not be the solution, the CPU cooler should be able to keep the CPU at reasonable temperatures with no external fans (with sufficient vents).
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:39 pm    Post subject: PC overheats and switches off Reply with quote

Anything raising static CPU usage?

Anyway, I get nervous above 160 degrees (looks "close to" 75 celsius). You smell your electronics baking in the room Laughing

You seem to have no idea what caused the problem and made a bandage for it rather than solve it.
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