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C'est la vie (Chameleon the game that never reached us)
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BillyOwens

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:34 pm    Post subject: C'est la vie (Chameleon the game that never reached us) Reply with quote

Hi there, it's Billy!

The English patch number (1.3) refers to the patch not the game, as far as I know Chameleon has only 1.0 version.
My patch that you mentioned was however NOT 1.3, that's from a different guy, I released a FULL ENGLISH Translation patch 1.0 on Moddb.com, it includes English voice-overs.

About the gameplay, as far as I understand your problem, the guards in front of the propaganda center can see you and shoot at you. That is maybe because you have been seen before in a restricted area. If the eye icon at the bottom turns red once, many guards will be hostile if they see you again. Try to stay in the shadows, if you can. Or you could restart the mission, and sneak into the Farid's building without too much noise. Try climbing the cable on top of the building by the market. Don't let anyone see you and guards should have no problems with you when you return to safe areas. The way to approach the propaganda center is through the front. After the autosave, one guy goes to take a leak and the other you can paralyze.

Let me know if it helped you. I'll be here.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:03 am    Post subject: Re: C'est la vie (Chameleon the game that never reached us) Reply with quote

BillyOwens wrote:
Hi there, it's Billy!

The English patch number (1.3) refers to the patch not the game, as far as I know Chameleon has only 1.0 version.
My patch that you mentioned was however NOT 1.3, that's from a different guy, I released a FULL ENGLISH Translation patch 1.0 on Moddb.com, it includes English voice-overs.

About the gameplay, as far as I understand your problem, the guards in front of the propaganda center can see you and shoot at you. That is maybe because you have been seen before in a restricted area. If the eye icon at the bottom turns red once, many guards will be hostile if they see you again. Try to stay in the shadows, if you can. Or you could restart the mission, and sneak into the Farid's building without too much noise. Try climbing the cable on top of the building by the market. Don't let anyone see you and guards should have no problems with you when you return to safe areas. The way to approach the propaganda center is through the front. After the autosave, one guy goes to take a leak and the other you can paralyze.

Let me know if it helped you. I'll be here.


Oh, wow. I had no idea the game was so hardcore, I thought it was broken. Sticking out tongue

How about this one. Hmm. Some missions you have to kill guys. Is it possible to do most without killing anyone? A few examples:

1. In the police station you MUST take out the guy watching the monitors (prison too, same thing) before you turn them off. You can do so nonlethally IF you brought the taser.

2. Beirut-after-attack. You are going back to headquarters, and there are two guys in the sewer. Now...you can always run a little to disturb them, then maybe if you have the taser remove one guy. Is that right, though? Seems to me like it might or should be possible to get past them without taking them out.

3. In Beirut underground, the game sort of implies you need to be, pretty much, run-and-gun, don't bother trying to sneak past the guy looking straight at your path forward, that kind of thing. But then I saw later on that same map that you can actually sneak past the card game in the garage.

It seemed possible, if unlikely, to get past the guard watching Fahrid's room and unlock the door there. I found that risk unreasonable, jumped on the table and strangled him, but wondered if that wasn't just the sloppy way to solve it.

Anyway, here's that data on Russian imagery we discussed Very happy
https://i.imgur.com/QhyxOKg.png
https://i.imgur.com/zcwEZ6n.png
https://i.imgur.com/86cq5hR.png
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BillyOwens

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:37 pm    Post subject: C'est la vie (Chameleon the game that never reached us) Reply with quote

I tried to do it the pacifist way, but it's ultra hardcore without the taser. Some parts of missions are designed to be shoot outs, e.g. belfast underground exit, the plane, the train, beirut underground, some of afganistan, sometimes you can run past the enemies, but I don't recommend it, it's pretty risky.

In the farm mission, you have to kill at least one guy: the guy in the tower, and possibly his companion downstairs, if you play on hard difficulty. Ireland doesn't let you take a taser with you Sad but I made a ALL WEAPONS mod on moddb so it's possible now to be non lethal.

In the police station, it's impossible to turn off the cameras without subduing the guard.

Beirut after attack, it is impossible to get through the sewer without being noticed or knocking the guys out. You can do the latter without being seen with the crossbow, more imaginary stealth points Sticking out tongue But maybe you try to get to the HQ on the ground level, there are some soldiers guarding it but if you expose yourself to them in the light while prone, they will start walking towards you a little, then slip back into the shadows. When they turn around, you should be able to sneak past them.

Beirut underground - you can sneak past the card game in the beginning, it's better to be sneaky, but when you get to the garage, you can only sneak to the storage backroom, where the weapons are. I usually use the flashbang grenades and throw them on the table with the guards playing cards. Then I run by them and kill the last guys (or shoot them with the crossbow). Fun fact, if you run out of ammo, keep the gun, in the next mission transition e.g. after attack -> underground, it refills any gun with full ammo.

It's impossible to go around everybody without being seen or knocking them out. I'd rather compromise some of those conditions to get the job done. It is disappointing that you can't be sneaky all the time in a stealth action game.
It should let you choose.

Maybe, there's a way to fix those Russian textures. Delete the maps folder in the directory and replace it with the maps folder in my Translation zip file.

Hope it helped!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:57 am    Post subject: C'est la vie (Chameleon the game that never reached us) Reply with quote

Arrrgh. All right, I did the hard work for you, because I like this game. (Thanks AsaSK). The files are called

pg_GSprislusNTWbarrelx128.tga
pg_GSprislusNTWbodyx128.tga
pg_GSprislusNTWScopex128.tga

Da, they aren't in your mod which you could have confirmed if you actually loaded the game and checked it yourself.

So, I decided to revisit Beirut underground. I now know it is technically possible to do the whole level without even being seen. However, you do need to manipulate 3 guys. Guy #1, who's staring at you when you start. The next guy, the one near the empty shaft sitting. The last, the man around the corner from him sitting on a chair. Doing this is not hard, you just need to memorize the exact steps to get around them.

You can also sneak in front of the guy by Fahrid. The game sort of encourages you to find a way forward even when it's gamey and impractical. It's also true if you are seen or there is shooting, usually everyone else won't notice, which is nice in that it allows you to continue sneaking, but also ridiculous.

It is pretty silly though; part of the stealth experience is not knowing where guys are and being able to progress somehow. When you know where guys are, you can run into rooms you know are empty and creep through rooms you know are being watched.

I did feel though, on the subject of stealth, Chameleon is frequently unclear about how much force is necessary. Like you said, some sections are designed to be shoot outs, and I saw that, but I was never sure if I was in a shoot out section or if I was just being lazy. A prime example is Beirut underground.

By the way, I've never seen a laser sight in the game. How does that work?

Also, let me just leave this here:

"MOLDOVA, TRAIN STATION - Platfrom"
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BillyOwens

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:25 pm    Post subject: C'est la vie (Chameleon the game that never reached us) Reply with quote

My apologies,

You see, I have checked it since you contacted me and thought it was working.
Naturally, I loaded up the Czech version out of habit, and some textures there are already in English, like the weapon parts when you equip them. So, it was easy to overlook it, assuming you had the wrong version of the patch. However, after your last post, I re-downloaded the Russian version to test it and you were right.

These three files are missing from my translation and I will update it later this week. Thanks for the help.

In Beirut underground it think it's impossible to pass the last guards in the garage without being seen. On Hard difficulty that is, there are more guards. The guards in the Farid's corridor are pretty uncompromising.

The laser sight is not a real thing, unfortunately.

But on second thought, it should be possible by making a mod. Because the SAS units in Belfast Underground do have them. I'll have a look.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:00 am    Post subject: C'est la vie (Chameleon the game that never reached us) Reply with quote

I see. For some reason, the Russian version is easily available, but the Czech or Polish version is not.

BillyOwens wrote:
Thanks for the help.


Hey, thanks for doing an update! I am looking forward to it Very happy

Ah, hard difficulty, I stay far away. Is there a way to switch the difficulty on a profile?

I'm amazed the laser sight is not real. I suggest deleting the text about it; I don't think there's any interface related reference to the laser sight. Also, there are "night vision optics" described on a few weapons. Is that also just imaginary?

What about this - in the controls there's a "roll" left and right setting. I assumed it would be like MAFIA's roll or maybe Splinter Cell's, but all I get with that button is a twitch, he barely moves at all. Am I doing it wrong?
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:27 am    Post subject: C'est la vie (Chameleon the game that never reached us) Reply with quote

It's not going to be a big update, I'll try to make it look a bit more English Very happy especially the weapon descriptions.

No, you can't switch back and forth between hard and normal.

Those night vision optics really don't work the way it's described, but there are night vision goggles, I suppose that's why this feature got scratched.

I tried the Beirut underground on Normal and it is possible to sneak around most of them. Except for the guy by the sewers that is sitting down. Did you have to knock him out?

I've never tried assigning a key to Roll, but you can do one by crouch + left/right + jump, I think Mafia has the same one.

Anyway, have you finished the game?
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:06 am    Post subject: Re: C'est la vie (Chameleon the game that never reached us) Reply with quote

BillyOwens wrote:
It's not going to be a big update, I'll try to make it look a bit more English Very happy especially the weapon descriptions.

No, you can't switch back and forth between hard and normal.

Those night vision optics really don't work the way it's described, but there are night vision goggles, I suppose that's why this feature got scratched.

I tried the Beirut underground on Normal and it is possible to sneak around most of them. Except for the guy by the sewers that is sitting down. Did you have to knock him out?

I've never tried assigning a key to Roll, but you can do one by crouch + left/right + jump, I think Mafia has the same one.

Anyway, have you finished the game?


All right...

Yeah, I finished it. That's when I started asking questions. I guess I have to play it again to see missions in hard mode Sticking out tongue

The "roll" key seems pointless; it doesn't do anything. It's too bad I didn't know how to roll; that could have been useful!

Beirut underground - no, I got it 100% through without being seen and without attacking anyone. I can quickly see how it may be impossible on hard, although it just depends on what is there. I just did the police station on hard and it's, AFAIK 100% identical to normal difficulty. I saw no extra enemies and again AFAIK that's the only change.

Unless there's some hidden change like enemies sight or hearing range.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:39 am    Post subject: C'est la vie (Chameleon the game that never reached us) Reply with quote

Someone outta put the full game here on Mafia Scene complete with any patches and the english translation.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:26 pm    Post subject: Re: C'est la vie (Chameleon the game that never reached us) Reply with quote

AMadeMan wrote:
Someone outta put the full game here on Mafia Scene complete with any patches and the english translation.


I guess, but we were never a pirate site and always kinda shackled to the one game. You want a link or something? Confused

Also I've been waiting like a thousand years for BillyOwens to update the patch. Not convinced that is happening. So I guess I'll leave my final thoughts here now.

---

It's actually a really good game. Plenty of stuff to see, environments actually pretty good. I was damn impressed by Belfast; it's a really good impression of what the place was like. Irish country, I could have been there, it's just like that. The research was spot on.

Now as for the REST of the game I think it gets a little more imaginative, one word that comes to mind if I haven't mentioned it yet is Kafkaesque. It's not necessarily wrong per se, it's just...hard for me to say how much these areas have been hollywooded up.

I was definitely impressed by Afghanistan, Havana was beautiful (though not sure if that one is realistic), BTW, XX anniversario = 1979 which is defnitely being a little...vague with the dates. The game internally gives dates to missions, like 1986-1988ish, and I'm not 100% sure if they line up with history, like violence in Lebanon, which I thought was only 1982 but apparently could be a couple of different occasions.

Eastern Europe, not sure. Weird place. Interesting to see an "iron curtain" nation give an impression of the Soviet Union. The USSR was a strange system. A little hard to separate fact from drama at times.

Argentina, also a weird setting. Seemed realistic but who knows.

Leaving New York. lol. So, not that I know anything about New York, but the Belfast accents in New York, oh boy. I loved that there was traffic. It wasn't very interesting traffic, just looped, but most games of the period didn't bother with modeling any traffic. The Belfast accents went everywhere there was English. There were those strange "Albanian" accents. I'm not sure why we couldn't have just known a few words of Albanian.

Sadly, in a sign of the production value, people in other parts of the world are mostly silent since they don't speak English and there are no foreign VOs.

I went through a few of the Splinter Cell games after this, and I can tell you right now, Splinter Cell is much much harder than Chameleon. Chameleon rewards your patience. Splinter Cell is more of a "gotcha!" kind of experience and they constantly introduce new mechanics. Chameleon, well, hard mode is not that different from normal mode, which is not that bad, really. I liked it quite a lot.

Hard mode does have some weird things in it though. For instance, there seem to be trigger points you're not allowed to cross in the prison mission. No one saw you but the alarm just goes off (which is not allowed in hard mode, a cutscene plays and you fail). Irritating. Not even sure why they did that.

Also, #1 irritating thing in Chameleon: all doors open directionally. Got that? So you're constantly sneaking around, trying to be quick and not be seen by cameras or guards, and the god damn doors have to be opened TOWARDS you and guess what? The door's not opening until you get out of the way. So you need to back up into some light or whatever. Worse still, the game has a weird tendency to automate this process like an animation, and it can, and it will walk you straght into a light filled hallway well outside of the door's arc without your input.

However, unlike in Splinter Cell, enemies don't care when they see opened doors. Smirking

2nd most irritating thing I have mentioned; the game is a little unclear about when stealth is valued and when you're not supposed to give a damn and shoot 'em up. Even within the same mission, some sections are clearly shooting sections, but others are seemingly well designed to allow sneaking past. It probably doesn't help that this is one of those games (most are, even now I think) where enemies have severe tunnel vision and won't react even if there was a bomb going off a few rooms away. The prison has an alarm which spawns more enemies (on NORMAL mode...) but it doesn't change in any way the behaviour of enemies on the map.

But in most missions, even if you're discovered and everything gets shot up, you typically can move down a hallway and resume sneaking past guys as if nothing had happened. So it seems like a compromise to allow you to continue the map without being a third person shooter, if you don't get through the map perfectly.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:19 pm    Post subject: C'est la vie (Chameleon the game that never reached us) Reply with quote

I just feel like its necessary to put the game here given how its really rare and difficult to find an a copy of the game, let alone an english version. The company behind it (Silver Wish Games) I think no longer has ownership after they became 2K Czech and then Hangar 13.

I really like how Cuba is in the game. Kinda gives the impression of a Communist Cuba/USSR Mafia Mod.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:05 am    Post subject: C'est la vie (Chameleon the game that never reached us) Reply with quote

A couple more things - they seemingly got real license plates for cars. That's cool; they completely ignored that stuff in MAFIA. They do repeat (on different cars) but at least the Cuban cars have Cuban plates and even cars in Lebanon have Lebanese plates; they went out of their way to do this.

The night vision is helpful but it isn't pretty as night vision goes; it just uniformly turns everything fluorescent green. In other games it's more delicately treated; for instance in Splinter Cell it's a light sensitive monochrome (where no light is clear and bright light is washed out) and in another game, (was it Far Cry?) your night vision is on a battery that you have to find energy for- it's a valuable resource. In Chameleon, you can have it on at all times, and it's invisible, no goggles required! So it definitely seems crude and gamey by comparison.

As for getting it, I checked and yeah, this game is very rare. I even checked Russian market sites. There are board games called Chameleon. There are chameleon toys. But I couldn't find a single copy anywhere. Don't expect Mafia Scene to endorse Abandonware, but...

Here's a link to the Russian version. You can then apply BillyOwens' mostly complete English patch from moddb.

https://rootgames.org/2547-chameleon-2005-pc-repack-ot-rg-upg.html

Note that this is not a link to the game, it merely indexes a list of people who have it. Laughing Do not use this index unless you own Chameleon. Angel

Mugshot et alii, feel free to torpedo that if you think that's over the line.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:21 pm    Post subject: C'est la vie (Chameleon the game that never reached us) Reply with quote

Hunter wrote:
Mugshot et alii, feel free to torpedo that if you think that's over the line.


Sticking out tongue

If it weren't for having to apply so many patches and the
game could be ready with English translation then it may
have been feasible to perhaps put up a temporary link.

However since I do not have access to the FTP server due
to problems with logging in have to use different p/w
for both site log-in and admin log-in and FireFTP no longer
supported... in a nutshell probably could add Chameleon
if it was the game directly but as for Abandonware; to cover
our backs probably best we avoid it. Wink
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:05 pm    Post subject: C'est la vie (Chameleon the game that never reached us) Reply with quote

I actually do have the original copy down in the basement, should I look for it? Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:57 am    Post subject: C'est la vie (Chameleon the game that never reached us) Reply with quote

Sure! Maybe you could post a few pics of it. Is it the Russian version or Polish version? (Polish has the English voice acting)

As for putting the game here, if the problem is with the large number of patches, then someone could lend a copy that already has the whole game patched and ready to go instead of all the patches released individually. My copy is already completely patched and I'd be happy to lend it for the sake of preservation.
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