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Mafia : City of Lost Heaven DEFINITIVE EDITION
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huckleberrypie

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Mafia : City of Lost Heaven DEFINITIVE EDITION Reply with quote

Mr Robville wrote:
I was worried for a bit since he had mentioned on his Twitter that he was considering skipping this game, so I'm glad he's still doing it.

During the video I was pleased to see that he was deliberately slowing down in the car chase from the bridge. That's something I'd have done as well, because it's a very easy way to mess with scripted events. When a game expects you to hurriedly speed through the city, and you don't, you'll witness the whole thing fall apart.

I think in essence, that is the one main flaw from DE towards the original. The lack of such strict scripted events on every thing you must do is what made the game feel far more organic. Not to mention it gave the player the sense of having a brain.

That said though, as he was sifting through the options, I must disagree on most criticism on that, because I'm glad they at least put the options in. There are more than a million games where this wouldn't be the case and you'd just have to deal with auto aim and skip drive.
Only that diamond marker thingy seems annoying as crap.

The marker thing is what GTA got right. It tells you where the objective is without getting in the way of the screen.

And such scripted events have been the bane of most if not all open-world/sandbox adventures. You're given a playing field yet you're expected to do this or do that without much in the way of experimentation. I mean sure, it would be hard to mold the player's actions into the narrative if gameplay is too freeform, but you'd be no better off than playing a rail shooter if the game forces you to one particular outcome.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Mafia : City of Lost Heaven DEFINITIVE EDITION Reply with quote

Mr Robville wrote:
Only that diamond marker thingy seems annoying as crap.

A hud toggle mod is out but as an early version toggles all like the speedometer and crosshair as well.

Toggle HUD for Mafia Definitive Edition

Project realism Lost Heaven mode does much more:

immersive hud
all HUD elements removed (except crosshair, speedometer and interactive prompts)
hit and kill markers removed
crosshair color indicator for friends and foes removed

Realistic gunfights
increased damage to enemies and player
first aid healing properties decreased to 15%
closer camera view in cover so you can't peek the enemies
no more zoom when aiming
first person view when driving
auto centering camera disabled when driving
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:37 pm    Post subject: Mafia : City of Lost Heaven DEFINITIVE EDITION Reply with quote

I love Mafia 1 PC original and quick notice few things, bad things in Mafia DEFINITIVE EDITION

1. Motel Mission - motel looks like brothel in the woods Smile and and all the grounds next door don't look so cool anymore

2. Airport mission is so quick and cut all nice things (hangar fight more action etc)

3. Sarah sex scene cut off, very shame, because Sarah has nice booty.

This is what I notice when watching gameplays on You Tube
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:58 pm    Post subject: Mafia : City of Lost Heaven DEFINITIVE EDITION Reply with quote

i'd love to see a modification that allows you to pick a certain moment in any chapter just like mafia 1 did, or the load chapter mod in mafia 2
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:44 am    Post subject: Mafia : City of Lost Heaven DEFINITIVE EDITION Reply with quote

Well here is Mack's review from Worth a Buy!
Mack wrote:
"Sadly it's 2020 and we get a 2020 game
with all the bullshit trimmings that ruin most other games
and I totally blame these gamers that have no patience
and these useless reviewers that would not recognise
immersion if it knocked them out for this state of affairs.
I get why some people still like this, it is Mafia after all
and can be fun, sadly I am probably an extreme Mafia fan
which is why I ran the largest Mafia fan site in Europe, so
it's bound to piss me off more than most!"




  • No immersion
  • No riding on transport
  • No choosing your own route to missions
  • No skill required whatsoever.


This is no longer a PC game (original from 2002)
that later was ported to consoles, but rather a
2020 console game for kindergarten kids ported to PC.

Normally I eventually buy games because they
look good to the eye; however I have no intention
of buying Mafia City of Lost Heaven: Disasterous Edition. I don't think so!

Quote:
Basically if it ain't broken don't fix
it, just polish it to make it look nice.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:10 am    Post subject: Mafia : City of Lost Heaven DEFINITIVE EDITION Reply with quote

Glad to see Mack did his review. And as expected, it was the only one to address the concerns that I had for it.

Is it a bad game? No. And I definitely will give it a shot at some point. But is it a truly faithful remake? Sadly not. For all the reasons mentioned in that video.

And I hate to say it, but consolized feels like the perfect description. Everything is kinda there, but to a bare minimum just so it can be checked off.

There are trams, but you cannot ride them.
There is Freeride, but no Extreme.
There are some missions in Freeride from Extreme, but only a slight handful.
There is a garage, but it doesn't keep the actual cars on the lot.
There are the original missions, but not to the same depth gameplay wise (e.g. you múst do what the markers say)
And so on and so on.

It still seems like a rather enjoyable game, and I am still very curious to see what they did with the story, despite the unlikable changes in the main characters, but I think I'll again wait for a sale.

Especially what Mack said about Tommy is so damn spot on. Something EVERY other reviewer I've seen has completely failed to mention. Tommy wasn't a gangster. He never was. He was just a cab driver caught up in that world. Hell, the whole story is about how his morals get him killed because he was never fit for that world. And here he is in the Definitive Edition, straight out of Goodfellas. Tommy, the former made man in hiding as a cab driver, who felt the urge to return to the world of organized crime where he came from and craved so much. (I know that's not the story, but that's certainly the attitude his character oozes.)
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:19 am    Post subject: Mafia : City of Lost Heaven DEFINITIVE EDITION Reply with quote

Mr Robville wrote:
Tommy, the former made man in hiding as
a cab driver, who felt the urge to return to the world of organized
crime where he came from and craved so much.
(I know that's not the story, but that's certainly the attitude his character oozes.)


Absolutely spot on Rob! However even this has not changed
my mind, but if you and others do (who haven't been fooled
by the carrot on the stick preorder) eventually buy it; hope
you enjoy!
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:49 am    Post subject: Mafia : City of Lost Heaven DEFINITIVE EDITION Reply with quote

I've put 15hours into the game and have a lot to say about it, and I would have thought this forum would be the best place to discuss and share interesting things. But it seems a handful of people here are spoiled children who expected the game to be everything they wanted.

Let's have a section where we can discuss details & spoilers without ruining it for those who havent played it, but intend to at some point.

Until then, all I'll say is: it's worth playing. Love it or hate it. There are so many changes it boggles my mind who at Hangar 13 thought that it was all necessary. Videos and other discussions online don't even scratch the surface of the changes, but people here would notice them.
It's the best Mafia game since the original and the best modern representation of the era.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:50 am    Post subject: Re: Mafia : City of Lost Heaven DEFINITIVE EDITION Reply with quote

Mr Robville wrote:
Glad to see Mack did his review. And as expected, it was the only one to address the concerns that I had for it.

Is it a bad game? No. And I definitely will give it a shot at some point. But is it a truly faithful remake? Sadly not. For all the reasons mentioned in that video.

Tommy wasn't a gangster. He never was. He was just a cab driver caught up in that world. Hell, the whole story is about how his morals get him killed because he was never fit for that world. And here he is in the Definitive Edition, straight out of Goodfellas. Tommy, the former made man in hiding as a cab driver, who felt the urge to return to the world of organized crime where he came from and craved so much. (I know that's not the story, but that's certainly the attitude his character oozes.)


Yeah, the problem I had with Definitive Tommy was that he felt less like a reluctant gangster who didn't ask for this life but pressed on because he had no choice as in the original.

This isn't an endorsement of any particular religion, but while the priest's portrayal in the remake was far more powerful, the epiphany Tommy had in the original was lost in my opinion. The purpose of that was to make you feel remorseful for getting innocents in the way no matter how you try to avoid it, in this case a parish who was holding a funeral mass.

In the original, Tommy questioned his faith and why it all came to this–a taxi driver caught up in a cruel world and was forced to make ends meet as a mobster even if he didn't want to. It seemed to dawn on him that this incident forced him to re-evaluate his life and eventually got disenchanted with being a gangster.

Quote:
Father, these people were criminals, cheats, murderers. The one
lying in the front wanted to rape my girl. Maybe God wanted it this way. A
lot of people will have an easier life because of this.


Priest: Yes, the Lord works in mysterious ways... But what about you? You
can look yourself in the face? Your hands are stained with blood that
you'll never wash off.

Tommy: I know that, father...

Priest: Look around you! Such a waste! We'll have to consecrate the church
again! Everything is shot up! I can't let my parishioners in here! What am
I going to do?

...

Tommy: Pray for my soul, father. I'll need it.

Priest: I will, my son. I certainly will.


Tommy asked to pray for his well-being which the priest gladly obliged, the latter knowing that Tommy is a kind-hearted person from within, only to be caught up in "that thing of ours". The remake on the other hand made it look as if Tommy was colder and more calculated, as if he couldn't care less about the priest's situation and what had transpired in the church. Maybe he was mortified within but was forced to stick to his "tough guy" persona, but still... For a pious man like Tom that seems rather jarring.

That being said I'm not that bothered with the direction the remake took overall. It's just that some things did not click well with me who has played through the original before.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:27 pm    Post subject: Mafia : City of Lost Heaven DEFINITIVE EDITION Reply with quote

@huckleberrypie,

That's an interesting thing you brought up. I haven't seen that mission yet myself, but from the way you describe it, it kinda falls into the concern I had about the story generally, that the developers remade it without truly understanding what the essence of it was about. Does that discard the whole story? Absolutely not. And it is good to see they've otherwise tried to flesh the whole thing out. It's just a bit of a shame that it feels as if the rewritten story was done by logic, rather than by passion.

@LeroyPeterson,

No need to throw insults around. Everyone is welcome to discuss the game here. If you love the game, that's fantastic. No one here will try convince you otherwise. But you got to understand that a Mafia fan site is the place where people discuss this game passionately, and that includes negative aspects.

No one will deny that there are many things H13 has done right. Mafia 1 wasn't the holy grail of game development either. Just because negative aspects are discussed, it doesn't mean no positives exist.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Mafia : City of Lost Heaven DEFINITIVE EDITION Reply with quote

Mr Robville wrote:

Especially what Mack said about Tommy is so damn spot on. Something EVERY other reviewer I've seen has completely failed to mention. Tommy wasn't a gangster. He never was. He was just a cab driver caught up in that world. Hell, the whole story is about how his morals get him killed because he was never fit for that world. And here he is in the Definitive Edition, straight out of Goodfellas. Tommy, the former made man in hiding as a cab driver, who felt the urge to return to the world of organized crime where he came from and craved so much. (I know that's not the story, but that's certainly the attitude his character oozes.)


There are some reviews that say so, but they mostly come from gamers, not proffessional websites etc.
I think similarily to you. I generally dislike modern shooters (cover system, uhhh... Max Payne 3 was such a letdown for me, when I love 1 and 2), but I am willing to go past all of that...
IF they keep the plot untouched. Plot is the reason Mafia is the best game ever. OK, add more content, story for Sarah etc., that the original game did not have due to size/time restrictions. But the main theme has to stay untouched.
And what do they do? Change the meaning of the plot, change the nature of the characters, get rid of the meaningful quotes and add lines that Uwe Boll can easily top.
I'll pass, I don't have a PC or a console that can handle the game, but even if I have, I won't buy DE.
At least I have motivation to keep on doing mods for the original.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:04 pm    Post subject: Mafia : City of Lost Heaven DEFINITIVE EDITION Reply with quote

Aside of the story, I think one thing that goes quite unnoticed, which Mack also addressed was the amount of details/interactivity you had in the original vs the remake.

Don't get me wrong, the DE still seems chockfull with details. Just now I read that when you disengage the speed limiter after passing cops, Tommy will actually look into the mirror to check if they are still there behind him. Now that's cool if that's true.

But what I mostly mean is things like a functional public transport, or the more natural way cops acted in the original. It seems that in the DE, cops just spawn out of nowhere en masse. The original wasn't so high octane, it seems. And as for public transport, any modern gamer cannot ever imagine why anyone would make use of that when they can zap around the streets in a car or on a bike. But it is that very kind of interactivity which levels a game from "just another AAA game" to something way beyond that. The same way it did for Mafia 1.

That's what I truly love about Red Dead Redemption 2 as well. Aside of how very scripted missions can be, there's still an absolute crapload of immersion surrounding it. And I'm not talking about sidequests, because that is an unfair comparison. I'm simply talking about details that made the game more slow paced and alive. E.G. having to take care of your weaponry, or being able to ride a stagecoach service and things like that. RDR2 was so full with it that it overshadowed the very scripted main missions.

Hell, even the way the levels in Half Life 2 were designed in such a way that I felt utterly immersed. And that's even a FPS game with really nothing else to do besides wiping the floor with bad guys. The pacing of levels, combined with the fact that the game doesn't rush you to do anything, hold your hand, or doesn't go over the top with any encounter you have, makes it a unique experience.
These are details solely made from passion, and give the player freedom of interaction.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Mafia : City of Lost Heaven DEFINITIVE EDITION Reply with quote

LeroyPeterson wrote:
I've put 15hours into the game and have a lot to say about it, and I would have thought this forum would be the best place to discuss and share interesting things. But it seems a handful of people here are spoiled children who expected the game to be everything they wanted.

Let's have a section where we can discuss details & spoilers without ruining it for those who havent played it, but intend to at some point.


By the way, as for my request regarding spoilers. I've given it some thought and it seems that line is simply too blurry to pinpoint what's truly a spoiler and what not. And since we don't have spoiler tags nor a dedicated topic, I reckon it is best to forget what I said. Because I'd love to read everyone's experiences on it, including yours. So as far as I'm concerned, please feel free to share them.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:31 am    Post subject: Re: Mafia : City of Lost Heaven DEFINITIVE EDITION Reply with quote

Mr Robville wrote:

By the way, as for my request regarding spoilers. I've given it some thought and it seems that line is simply too blurry to pinpoint what's truly a spoiler and what not. And since we don't have spoiler tags nor a dedicated topic, I reckon it is best to forget what I said. Because I'd love to read everyone's experiences on it, including yours. So as far as I'm concerned, please feel free to share them.


You're right, they're not really spoilers. While playing the game, I felt that players who know the original game as well as we do in this forum REALLY have to experience it for themselves.
So many modern games get a lot of bad press from fans/reviewers who take an element without context and blow it up into an online hysteria.
I will not defend Mafia DE, I actually disliked probably 90% of the gameplay, story, character and script changes.

I've watched a lot of reviews and comparison videos for the game and I don't think any have really focused on the nitty gritty changes that so hugely affect the greater picture.
The Priest mission mentioned earlier is a great example. When the entire theme of a mission and when character behaviours are completely changed, who cares about not being able to get onto a train or tram? Sticking out tongue
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:22 pm    Post subject: Mafia : City of Lost Heaven DEFINITIVE EDITION Reply with quote

As Mafia CoLH: Definitive Edition has finally
been released and some here are now playing
the game, any discussions regarding playing
and spoilers can now be discussed eventually
in this sub forum Mafia Definitive Edition
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