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Project - Laughing beasts

 
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Ramidus

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:47 pm    Post subject: Project - Laughing beasts Reply with quote

Hello guys! How's business?
Let me present myself. I'm 29 old guy from Czech Republic, who identifies himself mostly as a gamer. I finished Mafia 1 about 40 times (takes 2-3 days) and listen to its soundtrack until present.
Between 12 and 18 years of age, when going to high school and having hell of a lot of free time, I made maps for CoD1+2 as I loved creating worlds from nothing.
I still do. But meanwhile, I had to start living boring adult life.
In March, I moved to Chile for Working Holiday, but as everything is closed down, I can't do anything but sit in a hostel by my computer. And there the drive was born.
My vision for last couple years's been to make a game in as-accurate-as-possible reenactment of WWII-period Prague, where you have to deal with Nazi oppresion. At all cost, by many different ways, including taking part in resistance (which was really strong in my country, indeed).
The name is inspired by Reinhard Heydrich words: "Czechs are a nation of laughing beasts." Kinda right. Even though those Czech paratroopers, who fatally injured him on 27th May 1942 on his way to his Prague Castle's office, were probably not laughing at all.
However I don't intend to make this game in Mafia itself. I just need to have something to present at Kickstarter.
Using all my modding knowledge from COD and all the available resources, including this magnificent website, I still need to plug some gaps in my knowledge and I will probably need your help. All I want to achieve I've already seen working in other people's work, so I just need to know: how.
Here is my alteration of Mafia Menu. Not much, but Rome wasn't modded...ehm, built... in a day either, was it?


Here's the link if YT doesn't allow connection: YT video


Last edited by Ramidus on Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:54 pm; edited 4 times in total
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mammix

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:10 pm    Post subject: Project - Laughing beasts Reply with quote

Video unavailable, you posted a bad link, here's the correct one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk8Yc6A4yEw&feature=youtu.be

Sure looks interesting and the menu is very well executed! Will you do anything more about this mod in Mafia?
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Ramidus

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Project - Laughing beasts Reply with quote

mammix wrote:
Video unavailable, you posted a bad link, here's the correct one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk8Yc6A4yEw&feature=youtu.be

Yeah, youtube didn't like the music playing and bloked the vid due to copyright, so I reuploaded it and then screwed up updating the link. Sorry.

Quote:
Sure looks interesting and the menu is very well executed! Will you do anything more about this mod in Mafia?

Thanks. When playing the game as 11yo, I always wondered, what is behind that window Smile Now I know Very happy
Sure, I will definitely work in the menu more. Changing the items at the table to look more European than American, and making something happen in the street, if you watch for a while.
I also want to make part of Prague's Old town (already found a map from 1938) and some basic skeleton of what the game is about. Delivering a message to "dead mailbox", trying to avoid gestapo agents, who are sneaking behind you and stuff like that. Nothing very complicated model-wise, but hell of a lot of scripting.
I hate to only say "I want, I want" without actually having anything in my hands to show, but give me some time Smile

Question #1:
As you might have noticed, there is a guy standing on top floor of the building opposite the street, on the left side. I'd want him to smoke and watch the city.
I already learned that for menu, I should animate actors by
model_playanim instead of enemy_playanim, so this is the script I'll use:


dim_act 1
dim_frm 1
findactor 1, "smoker"
findframe 1. "smoker"

label 1
model_playanim "kurakloop.I3D"
wait 12000
model_playanim "kurakpotahnuti.I3D"
wait 7000
emitparticle 0,25
goto 1

now, should I call the "model" as actor, or as a frame? I always made my test scripts in freeride working without exactly knowing the difference between the two, but would be nice to know what I'm doing.

The major issue with scripting in DCED for 00menu\scene2 is, that scripts just don't stay there after saving. I write something, save all, run the game, see it's not working, reopen the script...and all I wrote 30 secs ago is gone. Would be splendid to overcome that.
Again, scripts for freeride are immortal.
How do you save your scripts, guys?
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Melhior

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:37 am    Post subject: Re: Project - Laughing beasts Reply with quote

Ramidus wrote:


Quote:
Sure looks interesting and the menu is very well executed! Will you do anything more about this mod in Mafia?

Thanks. When playing the game as 11yo, I always wondered, what is behind that window Smile Now I know Very happy
Sure, I will definitely work in the menu more. Changing the items at the table to look more European than American, and making something happen in the street, if you watch for a while.
I also want to make part of Prague's Old town (already found a map from 1938) and some basic skeleton of what the game is about. Delivering a message to "dead mailbox", trying to avoid gestapo agents, who are sneaking behind you and stuff like that. Nothing very complicated model-wise, but hell of a lot of scripting.
I hate to only say "I want, I want" without actually having anything in my hands to show, but give me some time Smile

Question #1:
As you might have noticed, there is a guy standing on top floor of the building opposite the street, on the left side. I'd want him to smoke and watch the city.
I already learned that for menu, I should animate actors by
model_playanim instead of enemy_playanim, so this is the script I'll use:


dim_act 1
dim_frm 1
findactor 1, "smoker"
findframe 1. "smoker"

label 1
model_playanim "kurakloop.I3D"
wait 12000
model_playanim "kurakpotahnuti.I3D"
wait 7000
emitparticle 0,25
goto 1

now, should I call the "model" as actor, or as a frame? I always made my test scripts in freeride working without exactly knowing the difference between the two, but would be nice to know what I'm doing.

The major issue with scripting in DCED for 00menu\scene2 is, that scripts just don't stay there after saving. I write something, save all, run the game, see it's not working, reopen the script...and all I wrote 30 secs ago is gone. Would be splendid to overcome that.
Again, scripts for freeride are immortal.
How do you save your scripts, guys?


Character models are called actors. Various items, separately inserted scripts are called frames. Where do you put this script? In the character itself or separately? If you enter it in the actor itself, then use enemy_playanim. If in the script separately, then person_playanim. In order for the actor to normally hold a cigarette in his hand, it is better to export the Smoking actor from the original via DCED. And import dnc files to the desired scene2. And then edit the values.

Personally, I write scripts in bsv 5.0. using bsv, I insert the necessary objects.
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vapno92

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:33 am    Post subject: Project - Laughing beasts Reply with quote

Hey there, Ramidus.
Well best thing You can to is to browse original missions's Scene2.bin files and study them.
It's easy to understand.
You can theoretically use model_playanim, but it refers to frame (object)
Basic thing I can tell You is, objects in Mafia are composed of 2 elements, wich You can see in DC/ED also.
OBJECT: Is on a physical layer, it have coordinates, rotation, it can have model.
Object DEFINITION: Its like "beaviour" of object. You can have various definition like Enemy, Car, Player, Script...

Basically, you use FRAME when you are reffering to object and ACTOR when you reffering to object definition.

When you are working with character, you use ACTOR in 99% of cases. Only case You use frame when working with character is, when you want to disable it and let it "dissapear", then you are using "frm_seton" command.

When you are working with characters, you have 2 types of commands.
enemy_ ... is used, when script is written in enemy itself

If you are reffering to enemy from another script, you are using human_ .... commands.

For example, you have command enemy_playanim "ssss", xx
where "ssss"is name of animation and "xx" is number of float. Into that float, script will put a time in ms of animation duration.
This command MUST be written in Enemy's script itself.
I have strons suspicion, that you inserted object with model of human but it don't have a definition of ENEMY.

Check it with DCED in scene2.bin

Useful tutorials in Czech language are
HERE and HERE
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Ramidus

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:10 pm    Post subject: Project - Laughing beasts Reply with quote

Thank you, Melhior and vapno92 for clearing things up. I indeed didn't have my actor defined in DCED as it kept dissapearing, so I called his routine from separate script. I changed that now and it has stayed saved for couple times already. Oh yeah!

I normally got a guy running any animation with no problem in freeride and I don't actually need him to hold a cig as he's too far from camera, but why not learn it properly right away, huh? I used working smoker from Punks Mod. I prefer to explore mods as it's always small, compact package of changes and it's easier to figure out what belongs to what.

Loading #1: The guy simply isn't there. I saw that coming. Someone warned me that when treating actor as human being, physics is applied, so first thing the guy does is falling through collision-less frames. I moved him to the room and made some collisions under him.

Loading #2, #3, #4 etc. He still falls through. No matter what type of collision I put under him. Face, AABB, XTOBB... So I can't really tell whether the script works or not - the guy probably has best intensions to have a smoke, but doesn't get to that.




Why the colls don't work? I'm slowly getting an impression my editor is kinda corrupted. It doesn't work as smoothly as they usually do in tutorial vids.
Collisions are actually supposed to be piece of cake, right?
Collision tutorial I watched.

Last edited by Ramidus on Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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vapno92

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:12 pm    Post subject: Project - Laughing beasts Reply with quote

00menu don't have tree.klz as far as I remember. Just copy tree.klz from Tutorial.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:55 pm    Post subject: Project - Laughing beasts Reply with quote

Yes, 00menu doesn't have a tree.klz since it's not a playable mission.

Please see section Creating Collision Models from scratch in Collision Model Editing.txt for details on how to create collisions from scratch.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:29 pm    Post subject: Project - Laughing beasts Reply with quote

hm, since your advise I tried, got pissed, thought again, got pissed, backuped my models and textures and reinstalled Mafia to start with "clean table" and to have Mafia in some directory where I don't have to click all the way to Steam folder every time I need to load model/texture to goddamn, stupid, pathetic zmodeler, which doesn't feature "recent" directories option in file browser. All this just to face new ****, got pissed many times over again. After two weeks I made ABSOLUTELY NOOOOO progress with animated guy as that little Idiot keeps falling through any collision I make for him and in spite of any tree.klz file I put to 00menu folder.
I just gave up as some NPC in the scene only makes like 2% of the impression and was definitely not worth wasting so much time for. There are more important and rewarding things!
I wanted to just visually change the scene of menu to my liking. I unlocked scene.4ds to delete the guns and couple other items at the table for my new models of thematic money and stuff, more related to actual story.
After deleting them and saving the scene, it is completely F#&%@D UP. Some items became transparent, some randomly rotated.
OK, I reloaded backup scene.4ds and gave up on actually editing it. I will just move the unwanted entities out of sight. I can still do this! Breathe deeply, man!
Next source of anger, frustration and curseswas that stupid, cumbersome, ***** of a program called Zmodeler. When making a model with multiple different textures (which is pretty much most of them, right?) this piece of crap starts flooding the maps folder with randomly named sub-textures, called _1, _13, _110 etc.) I seriously don't want to have 2 different bmp files in my folder for every goddamn texture I make.
What is even much worse, this WTF program keeps naming all the textures it bakes similar way, so when I make another model, it renames the textures to _1 again and then loads the old one, meant for previous model. What the hell happened?
So, please, I will describe how I make my models and you will tell me what I do wrong.

1)
I find textures, adjust them to be 2^n x 2^n pixels and save them to Mafia\maps folder.
2) make the model in Sketch up. Put the faces with same texture to same layer and make it the same component.
3) Export the .3ds file to models folder.
4) Import it with Zmodeler. Do the horky borky procedure with textures.
Now, half of the textures keep original names (as I named them when making them), but are blank, the rest is named _xxxx and the chance they will actually contain a texture is 50%.
The maps folder starts crawling with _xxx textures, not creating a new one, if one of that name already exists (obviously)
5) I export .4ds model to models folder.
6) Load the model in MWE, it writes "Could not load texture _xxx.BMP" and shows the rest of them as chessfield texture.
7) The model loads in game with white/invisible surfaces and some textures, which were meant to be at different model.

This made me respect all the advanced modders even more. Did you also have to handle so much Bullsh!t when making your mods?
I'm not used to having to deal with such problems from CoD mapping and scripting. It just... it just worked and I only needed ONE program for all that, not 4 of them, sually not updated since 2014.

The first picture shows the textures I want and the textures I don't want (_2, _3). Is there some way to overdrive this so Zmodeler doesn't mess everything up?

Second one is the box of chicory - fake coffee as real one was not available during the war - in Sketchup. It has 8 different textures and I'm quite proud of it. It will lie on the menu table with some money and food coupons in it.

Third one is finished bankonotes and the box with all textures being blank on the box. Even the ones that show correctly in Zmodeler - I turned the box this way to see if the top lid texture, which seems ok in Modeler, is ok in game. It's not.







So, please, can someone give me a hint about how to prevent Zmodeler from creating its own randomly named textures while completely ignoring mines, and how to properly cut the models into parts so they all have their own texture. I tried in Zmodeler but that little pitiful bastard usually crashes after couple hopeless attempts to select all the faces I need to put to the group. Also, half of the groups from Sketchup works (including its group names), but the other doesn't.
I already managed to make a working model with 2 textures (The president photograph under the window, piece of asphalt/grass terrain) so I guess I have the basics right, but this is overwhelming and I'm already too tired to keep trying just to face the same result every time.

On a scale from 1/10, how annoying modding Mafia usually is for you, guys? Just need comparison.

Thank you.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:55 pm    Post subject: Project - Laughing beasts Reply with quote

At scale from 0-10, Mafia is like 12,5 I would say.
Seriously, I LOVE Mafia, I love Mafia modding but it's anything but user-friendly experience, especially if you are used to work on more modern games/engines.
Since I started working on my first "mods" in like 2004, it's pretty normal for me. But like I said, if You are used to mod-friendly games, you will be very frustrated. You have to forgot everything You know about modding, if you want to work on Mafia.

You have to consider, that ALL Mafia editors are fan-made and most of them are nearly two decades old and without any support from creator.

For example, you have GREAT tool Mafia World Editor, which unfortunately doesn't support any script editing at all, so you have to use two tools at once.
Good luck if you save in one editor, destroying work you just done at other one because you forgot to reopen.
Scripting? Good luck, you have choice between BScriptView, that looks like it was made in early 1991, it doesn't even have script highliting, or DC/ED, which is more advanced but buggy as hell and it can basically destroy your scene2.bin file without any obvious reason...
There are some things, you can only do with rather terrible editors and patchers while most of them are in Russian language only, authors didn't bother to translate them to english, etc. etc. etc.

About scene.4DS, Mafia use so called "Sectors", you wil find more about them in that files I posted to you (Tutorials from Boz). Sectors, while being used heavily in original Mafia are NOT AT ALL supported by Zmodeler or any other tools, I am sorry. There are some rather strange ways how to do work with them, but they require some tricky HEX editing...
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:48 am    Post subject: Re: Project - Laughing beasts Reply with quote

vapno92 wrote:
There are some things, you can only do with rather terrible editors and patchers while most of them are in Russian language only, authors didn't bother to translate them to english, etc. etc. etc.


I agree with vapno92. I just wanted to know what kind of terrible editors are in Russian?

Ramidus: I would advise you to create a separate folder for each model and work in them. And then transfer the result to the maps folder.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Project - Laughing beasts Reply with quote

Melhior wrote:
I agree with vapno92. I just wanted to know what kind of terrible editors are in Russian?


There are few examples, take word "terrible" with reserve Wink

Most of Russian tools have one bad problem regardless of them being good or bad.
I can remember early RHAM version, I would not have problem to understand Russian if these tools were not coded badly in terms of "Character set" so we all had "???????" or "ČťľáíľšáťíľĎŽľľťľšč" or strange symbols instead of Azbuka.

Great example of terrible editor (but necessary) is DC/ED in terms of bugs and destroying scene2.bin alongside with DNCextractor.
Some editors may not necessarily be bad in terms of coding etc. but using them is just tedious and it's pain in the ass.
CHED for example, that's tool for though guys Laughing
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 9:51 am    Post subject: Re: Project - Laughing beasts Reply with quote

vapno92 wrote:
At scale from 0-10, Mafia is like 12,5 I would say.
Seriously, I LOVE Mafia, I love Mafia modding but it's anything but user-friendly experience, especially if you are used to work on more modern games/engines.
Since I started working on my first "mods" in like 2004, it's pretty normal for me. But like I said, if You are used to mod-friendly games, you will be very frustrated. You have to forgot everything You know about modding, if you want to work on Mafia.

You have to consider, that ALL Mafia editors are fan-made and most of them are nearly two decades old and without any support from creator.

For example, you have GREAT tool Mafia World Editor, which unfortunately doesn't support any script editing at all, so you have to use two tools at once.
Good luck if you save in one editor, destroying work you just done at other one because you forgot to reopen.
Scripting? Good luck, you have choice between BScriptView, that looks like it was made in early 1991, it doesn't even have script highliting, or DC/ED, which is more advanced but buggy as hell and it can basically destroy your scene2.bin file without any obvious reason...
There are some things, you can only do with rather terrible editors and patchers while most of them are in Russian language only, authors didn't bother to translate them to english, etc. etc. etc.

About scene.4DS, Mafia use so called "Sectors", you wil find more about them in that files I posted to you (Tutorials from Boz). Sectors, while being used heavily in original Mafia are NOT AT ALL supported by Zmodeler or any other tools, I am sorry. There are some rather strange ways how to do work with them, but they require some tricky HEX editing...


This post is hilarious. Laughing

Anyway, back to boring adult life.
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Ramidus

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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 2:50 am    Post subject: Project - Laughing beasts Reply with quote

Hey guys. I still haven't pushed through with the no collision issue, but at least I made BSV working, figured out why modeling programs messed up my used textures and more importantly, made them stop doing that, so I dove into modelling the appartment of Mr. and Mrs. Hellberger, the main caracters of my game. The appartment is basically finished except some texture glitches, that have to be dealt with, I increased the FOV to "see more" and adjusted all menu camera positions, changed the theme music for something "More Czech". I'm quite excited about the feeling of it, but now I have to furnish the appartment to make it nice and make a lot of Czech-related models and get more detailed wall textures as the stock one are definitely not sufficient for my needs. I think I will have something new to show within a week, so please, stay with me.

Btw: any tips why lightmaps don't work either? I can't even click "bitmap" in most frames' setting and if I can and "something happens", there is no visible effect after computing is carried out. Is there some tutorial which includes troubeshooting? Simple "go there, click this, congrats" tut doesn't help.
Thank you.
Happy End of WWII Memorial day!
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Project - Laughing beasts Reply with quote

Ramidus wrote:

I still haven't pushed through with the no collision issue

<snip>

Btw: any tips why lightmaps don't work either? I can't even click "bitmap" in most frames' setting and if I can and "something happens", there is no visible effect after computing is carried out. Is there some tutorial which includes troubeshooting? Simple "go there, click this, congrats" tut doesn't help.

MWE ships with documentation to get you started. See chapters docs/Collision Model Editing.txt and docs/Lightmapping.txt. Wink
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