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Looking back: Mafia hype in the year 2000
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Muggy

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking back: Mafia hype in the year 2000 Reply with quote

daviunic wrote:
Hi, I'm Overdoze at BetaArchive. I've apparently had this account here for a while but forgot about it and I couldn't make a new one due to the captcha not working. Oh well...


Anyway, the links got broken because I'm still reorganizing things a bit. I'm still looking for screenshots and when I find a better copy, I replace the existing one and the link breaks as a result. I originally wanted to put all screenshots in a zip file, but that'd mean I'd have to repackage things every time I made an update, so I figured it'd be best to just link to a cloud folder.

I don't know of any better solution at this time, if you do please let me know. In the mean time, I'd suggest you don't link directly to the images, in case things change again. Instead, link only to the folder or upload the image in question elsewhere and link to that.

And considering I now have access to this site again, I might move the topic here if that's fine with you folks.


Thanks for the heads-up daviunic and please
by all means make your topic regarding these
archives about Mafia CoLH and its progress.
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ASM.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking back: Mafia hype in the year 2000 Reply with quote

huckleberrypie wrote:
TBH I didn't realise that Mafia 1 used navmeshes for peds.

The navdata in the screenshot posted by AsaSK indeed looks quite meshy but as far as I know Mafia uses node-based navigation.
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Deanna_Troi

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:36 am    Post subject: Looking back: Mafia hype in the year 2000 Reply with quote

I may be late on this, but in my opinion, I think Mafia: TCoLH benefited better from the cut content, most of which, if not all, can be added back via modding ability, unlike Mafia II which didn't do any justice at all. Mafia 1, I can play this for the rest of my life; with Mafia II, I played it 5-6 times then I got bored.

Looking at the beta screenshots of Mafia 1, I think it looked impressive; Paulie having a brown suit looks really good on him, and Sam looking handsome with his blond hair. And the beta contained extra objects which were not shown in the final game (for better or worse).

So, in all accounts, Mr. Daniel Vavra and his team of geniuses did a great job with this game Mafia 1. It is a shame though, that 2K Games and some Mafia players alike left this game to rot in death. That is, until Steam and Good Old Games brought this game back to life once again, and for that I thank them (although I still have a legal v1.0 CD copy in my possession since I first purchased the copy back in January 2003).
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AsaSK

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:27 pm    Post subject: Looking back: Mafia hype in the year 2000 Reply with quote

I'm certain that the detail level was cut down due to engine/technology limitations. In one of the articles posted earlier, Vavra mentioned huge frame drops, ergo the city being redesigned multiple times. Peds even used to push prams and read newspapers, as can be seen in some screenshots.
If anything, this suggests IS were way ahead of the tech they had at the time. The small amount of promotional video, captured at certain areas of production, show complex lighting and far more detailed environments; now we understand that those were probably enclosed and only modeled for what was seen in said shots. A nice example of this is the 'alpha trailer', where a policeman is stabbed from behind in what looks like that alley outside central Chinatown - in the final game the alley is virtually barren, but in the vid it has all kinds of debris (including unused models left in the game like 66stnX).
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:45 pm    Post subject: Looking back: Mafia hype in the year 2000 Reply with quote

That's right Asa. Even after Mafia came out, many PC players probably weren't even able to play the released game at medium or high settings.

The map was so detailed with advanced lighting, highly detailed textures, models, and animations for characters, the engine at the time just couldn't handle it and would probably buckle under the weight.

The map had to be redesigned 3 times for the sake of frames and making sure no ones PC would explode.

Even though omissions were made, Mafia for the time it came out was and still is a damn impressive game with more attention to detail compared to most games today.

All these omissions can be added through mods thankfully.
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AsaSK

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking back: Mafia hype in the year 2000 Reply with quote

AMadeMan wrote:
Even though omissions were made, Mafia for the time it came out was and still is a damn impressive game with more attention to detail compared to most games today.


Oh absolutely, it's still far and away the best video game I've ever played - it's absolutely phenomenal. (Plus we never knew the extent of the cuts like we did its sequel, so we grew to love it as it is) Wink
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking back: Mafia hype in the year 2000 Reply with quote

AsaSK wrote:
AMadeMan wrote:
Even though omissions were made, Mafia for the time it came out was and still is a damn impressive game with more attention to detail compared to most games today.


Oh absolutely, it's still far and away the best video game I've ever played - it's absolutely phenomenal. (Plus we never knew the extent of the cuts like we did its sequel, so we grew to love it as it is) Wink


Yep, and Mafia 2's cut content is a tragedy compared to COLH. For that game, we've probably only scratched the surface. 2K Czech used some of it as paid DLC, with the majority not even being accessible to the player without cheats.
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Illusion_Insanity

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:38 pm    Post subject: Looking back: Mafia hype in the year 2000 Reply with quote

textdb_cz.def from Mafia Alpha v0.99+ (20.02.2001)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Iks1bGf9zbl196n0P8bVgz3uelSDvJc7
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking back: Mafia hype in the year 2000 Reply with quote

Illusion_Insanity wrote:
textdb_cz.def from Mafia Alpha v0.99+ (20.02.2001)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Iks1bGf9zbl196n0P8bVgz3uelSDvJc7

Interesting, thanks. Smile Where did you find that if you don't mind me asking?
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Illusion_Insanity

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:47 pm    Post subject: Looking back: Mafia hype in the year 2000 Reply with quote

I found this in the Hidden & Dangerous 2 files (folder "tables")
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:37 am    Post subject: Looking back: Mafia hype in the year 2000 Reply with quote

Now if only we could find a full build of Mafia from 2000 or 2001.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking back: Mafia hype in the year 2000 Reply with quote

Illusion_Insanity wrote:
I found this in the Hidden & Dangerous 2 files (folder "tables")


That's really interesting Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:37 pm    Post subject: Looking back: Mafia hype in the year 2000 Reply with quote

Thanks

In the folder MISSIONS\mise12-garage there is a scene.bin file. If you open it through Hex, you will see the following:



Michal Bačík was the Lead Programmer of Insanity Engine (Hidden & Dangerous 1). He later left Illusion Softworks and founded Lonely Cat Games. His company released Hidden & Dangerous Deluxe with a game editor.
His name in the credits of the Mafia:



As you know, the Mafia first worked on the Insanity Engine, LS3D Engine was developed later.
I wrote him an email, but unfortunately he had nothing left. Sad



It would be nice to find the email addresses of the LS3D engine programmers.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:37 am    Post subject: Looking back: Mafia hype in the year 2000 Reply with quote

Maybe he can explain why they ruined the character textures in H&DD Sticking out tongue
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:08 am    Post subject: Re: Looking back: Mafia hype in the year 2000 Reply with quote

Illusion_Insanity wrote:


In the folder MISSIONS\mise12-garage there is a scene.bin file. If you open it through Hex, you will see the following:


Hmm. I opened this file but didn't see that text string. Is that on exactly version of game or what?
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