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Mafia pre-release screenshots (~400 screenshots!)
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AsaSK

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: Mafia pre-release screenshots (~400 screenshots!) Reply with quote

daviunic wrote:
Well maybe they thought about it, but if you consider they had to keep changing the city, reduce texture quality, etc. to optimize the game so they could meet their target requirements, it's obvious why it wasn't done.

When you read some early interviews it really feels like this game was quite ahead of its time in some areas but at the same time constrained by the hardware that was available back then (as well as prolonged development time obviously).


Yeah Vavra did say the city had to be redone something like six times to raise framerates. It's a very that-gen problem isn't it, no-one needs to worry about simplifying game features to suit hardware nowadays.
And with the real-time sky/lights/lightmapping issue, I'm not sure that technology was around in any FPS at that time. But Mafia broke enough game design boundaries as it is Wink
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:20 pm    Post subject: Mafia pre-release screenshots (~400 screenshots!) Reply with quote

Could it be possible to stumble across the LS3D SDK?
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:51 pm    Post subject: Mafia pre-release screenshots (~400 screenshots!) Reply with quote

If you mean the tools such as the level editor, etc. then I very much doubt it. I see no reason why those would ever be released outside of Illusion Softworks, and even someone leaking them is unlikely for obvious reasons.

Would be pretty cool, though. Granted, the engine is rather antique now, but it could still be fun.

Another look at Sarah's appartment, this time with proto-Tommy.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:00 am    Post subject: Mafia pre-release screenshots (~400 screenshots!) Reply with quote

I've often wondered who the models were for the LH population, they must have got those faces from somewhere.. Thinking
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:00 am    Post subject: Re: Mafia pre-release screenshots (~400 screenshots!) Reply with quote

AsaSK wrote:
I've often wondered who the models were for the LH population, they must have got those faces from somewhere.. Thinking

Developers' friends and relatives, perhaps? At least that was the case with the original Max Payne as they only had a rather modest budget and had to resort to comic book panels in lieu of actual FMVs.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Mafia pre-release screenshots (~400 screenshots!) Reply with quote

huckleberrypie wrote:
AsaSK wrote:
I've often wondered who the models were for the LH population, they must have got those faces from somewhere.. Thinking

Developers' friends and relatives, perhaps? At least that was the case with the original Max Payne as they only had a rather modest budget and had to resort to comic book panels in lieu of actual FMVs.


Yeah I was thinking of Max Payne as I typed that. Sam Lake and Marko Saaresto, etc Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:15 pm    Post subject: Mafia pre-release screenshots (~400 screenshots!) Reply with quote

AsaSK wrote:

And with the real-time sky/lights/lightmapping issue, I'm not sure that technology was around in any FPS at that time. But Mafia broke enough game design boundaries as it is Wink

Theoretically it should be possible to have dynamic(ish) time-of-day in Mafia by using the technique proposed by huckleberrypie. LS3D supports lightmap levels (as found in mise11-vila for example) so it should work by baking four or so lightmaps for, say, morning, noon, evening and night. You can then switch between the levels, change the skybox and turn the street lights on/off via some script that is run on certain events such as when saving the game at Salieri's Bar, when starting a mission etc.. This does not give you a fully dynamic system of course but at least allows to change the time-of-day without having to load another mission.

AMadeMan2 wrote:

Could it be possible to stumble across the LS3D SDK?

It does happen from time to time that people find old development backup media on their attic and release stuff but I wouldn't count on it (unfortunately). Sad
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Mafia pre-release screenshots (~400 screenshots!) Reply with quote

ASM. wrote:
AsaSK wrote:

And with the real-time sky/lights/lightmapping issue, I'm not sure that technology was around in any FPS at that time. But Mafia broke enough game design boundaries as it is Wink

Theoretically it should be possible to have dynamic(ish) time-of-day in Mafia by using the technique proposed by huckleberrypie. LS3D supports lightmap levels (as found in mise11-vila for example) so it should work by baking four or so lightmaps for, say, morning, noon, evening and night. You can then switch between the levels, change the skybox and turn the street lights on/off via some script that is run on certain events such as when saving the game at Salieri's Bar, when starting a mission etc.. This does not give you a fully dynamic system of course but at least allows to change the time-of-day without having to load another mission.

AMadeMan2 wrote:

Could it be possible to stumble across the LS3D SDK?

It does happen from time to time that people find old development backup media on their attic and release stuff but I wouldn't count on it (unfortunately). Sad


Someone find Jiri Pop, quick Laughing

That's interesting, though. I've thought about skybox changes but never really thought lights could be done, but the way you say it sounds very plausible. Now that you mention it, didn't the Change of Day mod do something like that?
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:16 pm    Post subject: Mafia pre-release screenshots (~400 screenshots!) Reply with quote

AsaSK wrote:

That's interesting, though. I've thought about skybox changes but never really thought lights could be done, but the way you say it sounds very plausible.

I haven't tried to implement the idea yet so it's well possible there're some (hardcoded) limits in LS3D that prevent the approach from working at the scale of the mesto/freeride missions.

What's definitely a bit of a problem is the tools side. At the moment you'd have to open the mission in DC||ED, enable/disable some lights, load the mission in MWE, build lightmaps for a level, load in the mission in DC||ED again, enable/disable some other lights, build another lightmap level, etc.. Now it's no problem to add light properties support to MWE so you don't have to do the DC||ED roundtrip but you'd still need a way to toggle the street lights. There're quite a few dozens of them in freeridenoc so you definitely don't want to do that manually. A scripting engine could probably help here.

AsaSK wrote:

Now that you mention it, didn't the Change of Day mod do something like that?

From what I remember yes, to some extend. However I'm not sure whether it used lightmaps or messed with the street lights.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:42 pm    Post subject: Mafia pre-release screenshots (~400 screenshots!) Reply with quote

I read that the Priest was originally supposed to appear in the mission Omerta. Is this true? I couldn't find any info, screenshots, or videos pointing to it as true.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Mafia pre-release screenshots (~400 screenshots!) Reply with quote

ASM. wrote:
AsaSK wrote:

That's interesting, though. I've thought about skybox changes but never really thought lights could be done, but the way you say it sounds very plausible.

I haven't tried to implement the idea yet so it's well possible there're some (hardcoded) limits in LS3D that prevent the approach from working at the scale of the mesto/freeride missions.

What's definitely a bit of a problem is the tools side. At the moment you'd have to open the mission in DC||ED, enable/disable some lights, load the mission in MWE, build lightmaps for a level, load in the mission in DC||ED again, enable/disable some other lights, build another lightmap level, etc.. Now it's no problem to add light properties support to MWE so you don't have to do the DC||ED roundtrip but you'd still need a way to toggle the street lights. There're quite a few dozens of them in freeridenoc so you definitely don't want to do that manually. A scripting engine could probably help here.

AsaSK wrote:

Now that you mention it, didn't the Change of Day mod do something like that?

From what I remember yes, to some extend. However I'm not sure whether it used lightmaps or messed with the street lights.


I don't think a real dynamic day/night cirlce can be made. Mafia engine uses pre-baked shadows. (except for cars and humans) You could, however, create a second lightmap flag with MafiaWorld Editor for each(!) object and a script that changes the flags (of each object, and they are a lot), and that enables/disables the lights after a certain amount of time or after an event. But he day/night cirlce would be an instant change from day to night. Unless you create multiple of those lightmap flags which could represent some time between day and night. But if that would happen during gameplay, you would still notice a sudden change. Best would be if you write a script that turns the screen black, shows a sentence like "4 hours later" appear before changeing the time, so you would not notice the unsmooth change of time.

Thats basically what someone a few posts before already suggested Laughing

Sadly I think it is not possible to access and change the intensity of a light with a script. This is basically how it is made in GTA 3 I think.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Mafia pre-release screenshots (~400 screenshots!) Reply with quote

flovivi wrote:

I don't think a real dynamic day/night cirlce can be made.

Agreed.

I wonder how S.T.A.L.K.E.R. does it. The game has a fully dynamic day/night cycle and from what I remember the D3D8 FFP renderer also uses lightmaps. What might work is to not move the sun at all (so shadows remain constant), bake several lightmaps (for, say, morning, noon, evening and night) and then blend between them somehow as time progresses. Thinking

flovivi wrote:

Best would be if you write a script that turns the screen black, shows a sentence like "4 hours later" appear before changeing the time, so you would not notice the unsmooth change of time.

Yeah, that could work. I think there're several points where such transitions could be integrated into the gameplay, like when saving the game at Salieri's or starting a new mission. After all this is pretty much how Mafia 2 does it with its fully dynamic lighting pipeline (I think? Guilty ).

flovivi wrote:

Thats basically what someone a few posts before already suggested Laughing

Do you happen to refer to this post? Wink

flovivi wrote:

Sadly I think it is not possible to access and change the intensity of a light with a script. This is basically how it is made in GTA 3 I think.

It might be possible to add a command for that to MSE but I guess I'd personally prefer a lightmapped solution, even if it only gives a pseudo day/night cycle as described above. It simply looks better I'd say. I always found the lighting in Mafia to be superior to GTA 3.
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